Hi! I have recently moved to Finland (that's why I speak English for now, my Finnish is still weak) and I am planning to buy a car. My No. 1 option for buying is an Alfa Romeo 159 Station Wagon (I like the exterior and interior design). And I would be very grateful if one of the experienced 159 owners could help me understand the following questions:
- How expensive is the usual maintenance (changing filters, oil, etc.)?
- How easy is the car to repair? I mean can a handy person service the car themselves using regular tools, or the car needs special branded tools, software, and it is better to go to a service center?
- Is it difficult and expensive to find spare parts?
- How does the car handle a harsh winter? Are there any defects that appear at low temperatures? I am going north to work for the winter and last winter the temperature there reached almost -40.
- And what is better to choose, a gasoline or diesel engine?
Questions about Buying an Alfa Romeo 159 Station Wagon
Valvoja: Moderators
-
Polforea
- Viestit: 11866
- Liittynyt: 21 Kesä 2011, 01:17
- Car(s): 159 Berlina
159 Berlina
348TB
350i DHC
4C 1:24 TBi - Paikkakunta: Viiva-k-fisu
Re: Questions about Buying an Alfa Romeo 159 Station Wagon
Welcome to cozy Finland! Also, welcome to happy Alfa-drivers community 
I'd say that 159 is a good car. They are mostly technically reliable and quite easy to live with, though there are few caveats.
1) M32 gearbox, these manual boxes - mainly paired with smaller engines - have shimming failures from the factory and some of them eat theier bearings. It might be fixed, though, as the cars have seen a bunch of years now. Look out for extra noises and living gear stick.
2) The timing chain of GM-related gasoline engines. These are designed too eagerly on savings, so they tend to wear out and the timing starts to go offset. While looking at 1.9JTS, 2.2JTS or 3.2JTS if the timing chain isn't (lately) redone properly, expect the car to start waving the helicopter light at you.
3) The window elevators (I think especially on right rear window) have a tendency of cracking at old age. Not a huge deal to change.
4) Rust. The side sill architechture is plainly stupid and the side sills easily gather unwanted material inside of them. This dust, gravel etc collects humidity and rosts through. Also the under carriages of engine and rear axle have a tendency to rust.
5) The windshield wiper system. The driver-side bearing (or similar) starts to tackle up and the construction gets more load, at some point it's too much and the system physically gives up.
I'm sure somebody will point out something that I've forgotten, but here's the start.
Considering repairs and servicing, I see 159 as quite reasonable car to service and repair. There is the underside plastic cover that has something like 14 screws on it with 3 different heads that should be removed for practically all services, but other than that the normal service points are easily accessible. Of course there's some annoying places like the plug for filling the manual gearbox oil, but those don't tend to be needed so often. The nastiest regular service I know is the 3.2 auxiliary belt, as one needs to remove the engine support to change it, but even that isn't so horrible job as it sounds. The most usual "specialist tool" needed is cabable enough diagnostics software/system. Software called MultiEcuScan is quite good on these and it only costs 50€ to register.
Also, 159 is one of the best winter cars I've ever had. It's not surprising that the Q4 has great traction and fun factor on ice, but also the FWD actually goes really well on slippery and snowy conditions (just use proper winter tires, you won't regret - though this actually fits for every car). There's also enough heat available to cabin, though the seat heaters have tendencies to fail.
The diesel engines are robust and they last easily for half the world, if maintained evenly slightly reasonably. I personally would avoid the 1.8i (very rare) and 1.9JTS just because the power-to-weight ratio with these engines is not so great and 2.2JTS is also quite commonly available. 3.2JTS is nice and easy to drive, but it does have tendency to drink the fuel. 1750TBi should be quite good as far as I know.
Find the one that has good chassis (ie. as rust-free as possible) and good service history and you'll have a great start for Alfing the 159.
I'd say that 159 is a good car. They are mostly technically reliable and quite easy to live with, though there are few caveats.
1) M32 gearbox, these manual boxes - mainly paired with smaller engines - have shimming failures from the factory and some of them eat theier bearings. It might be fixed, though, as the cars have seen a bunch of years now. Look out for extra noises and living gear stick.
2) The timing chain of GM-related gasoline engines. These are designed too eagerly on savings, so they tend to wear out and the timing starts to go offset. While looking at 1.9JTS, 2.2JTS or 3.2JTS if the timing chain isn't (lately) redone properly, expect the car to start waving the helicopter light at you.
3) The window elevators (I think especially on right rear window) have a tendency of cracking at old age. Not a huge deal to change.
4) Rust. The side sill architechture is plainly stupid and the side sills easily gather unwanted material inside of them. This dust, gravel etc collects humidity and rosts through. Also the under carriages of engine and rear axle have a tendency to rust.
5) The windshield wiper system. The driver-side bearing (or similar) starts to tackle up and the construction gets more load, at some point it's too much and the system physically gives up.
I'm sure somebody will point out something that I've forgotten, but here's the start.
Considering repairs and servicing, I see 159 as quite reasonable car to service and repair. There is the underside plastic cover that has something like 14 screws on it with 3 different heads that should be removed for practically all services, but other than that the normal service points are easily accessible. Of course there's some annoying places like the plug for filling the manual gearbox oil, but those don't tend to be needed so often. The nastiest regular service I know is the 3.2 auxiliary belt, as one needs to remove the engine support to change it, but even that isn't so horrible job as it sounds. The most usual "specialist tool" needed is cabable enough diagnostics software/system. Software called MultiEcuScan is quite good on these and it only costs 50€ to register.
Also, 159 is one of the best winter cars I've ever had. It's not surprising that the Q4 has great traction and fun factor on ice, but also the FWD actually goes really well on slippery and snowy conditions (just use proper winter tires, you won't regret - though this actually fits for every car). There's also enough heat available to cabin, though the seat heaters have tendencies to fail.
The diesel engines are robust and they last easily for half the world, if maintained evenly slightly reasonably. I personally would avoid the 1.8i (very rare) and 1.9JTS just because the power-to-weight ratio with these engines is not so great and 2.2JTS is also quite commonly available. 3.2JTS is nice and easy to drive, but it does have tendency to drink the fuel. 1750TBi should be quite good as far as I know.
Find the one that has good chassis (ie. as rust-free as possible) and good service history and you'll have a great start for Alfing the 159.
Tekemällä mitä haluaa oppii tekemään mitä haluaa.
Re: Questions about Buying an Alfa Romeo 159 Station Wagon
^^Cool beans, Andreas - go get yourself an Alfa! And if it has to be a 159, make sure to get the TBi. - You were lucky enough to get the rundown from propably the most sensible petrolhead on the forum. - Now on to my two cents: at the budget range of a 159, get a Pacific rim 4by4. Up north that’s the safest bet at your price point. This is not the country for cool cars… and with that out of the way - the heart wants what the heart wants, congrats on your new Alfa Romeo! 
Just don’t get one that drinks the devils juice. Diesel can freeze up. And it’d just be terrible anyways.
Just don’t get one that drinks the devils juice. Diesel can freeze up. And it’d just be terrible anyways.
-
Polforea
- Viestit: 11866
- Liittynyt: 21 Kesä 2011, 01:17
- Car(s): 159 Berlina
159 Berlina
348TB
350i DHC
4C 1:24 TBi - Paikkakunta: Viiva-k-fisu
Re: Questions about Buying an Alfa Romeo 159 Station Wagon
Yes, diesel (the fuel) can freeze (it's not actually freezing, but basically it gets so thick the car can't pump or use it). But in the very north there will be arctic diesel available.
It's important to follow the maintenance schedule and change the diesel filter on every other maintenance (ie. 60Mm change interval) and drive enough to renew the fuel when the air gets colder and the fuel is changed at the stations. One should get the tank mostly empty before filling up with "colder" diesel to ensure the diesel flowing.
Also, the common rail fuel system used in 159 actually also heats the diesel fuel, so when you get the car running and it runs for a moment, it probably will run steadily to the end of the tank. The heating is intense enough to require cooling circle at the return line - this is why the return line makes U-turns about at rear and front axle and is clearly longer than the car itself.
Oh, remember to keep the door rubber insulations clean (you can use anti-frieeze glycol wiping these), it'll help to keep the doors opening instead of freezing stuck to the car. This also fits every car that has doors in the market, it's not Alfa-specific.
It's important to follow the maintenance schedule and change the diesel filter on every other maintenance (ie. 60Mm change interval) and drive enough to renew the fuel when the air gets colder and the fuel is changed at the stations. One should get the tank mostly empty before filling up with "colder" diesel to ensure the diesel flowing.
Also, the common rail fuel system used in 159 actually also heats the diesel fuel, so when you get the car running and it runs for a moment, it probably will run steadily to the end of the tank. The heating is intense enough to require cooling circle at the return line - this is why the return line makes U-turns about at rear and front axle and is clearly longer than the car itself.
Oh, remember to keep the door rubber insulations clean (you can use anti-frieeze glycol wiping these), it'll help to keep the doors opening instead of freezing stuck to the car. This also fits every car that has doors in the market, it's not Alfa-specific.
Tekemällä mitä haluaa oppii tekemään mitä haluaa.
Re: Questions about Buying an Alfa Romeo 159 Station Wagon
Thanks to everybody for the good words and useful advices. So now I'll take some time to think one more time, but most probably I'll proceed to buying 159 Thanks to you guys again.
Thanks to you guys again.